The Cure

MUSIC FOR FREE?

SO
IT SEEMS A FEW PROFESSIONAL APOLOGISTS (YOU HAVE TO LOVE THEM!) OUT THERE DISAGREE WITH MY "EVERY ARTIST SHOULD VALUE THEIR ART" MUSING
AND THINK ITS OK FOR ART - MUSIC IN PARTICULAR - TO BE MADE AVAILABLE FREE FOR ALL...

NO I AM NOT CONFUSING 'ARTISTIC VALUE' WITH 'COMMERCIAL VALUE'
MERELY QUESTIONING THE DUMB ACCEPTANCE OF THE 'FREE ART IS THE 'NEW' PARADIGM - THATS JUST THE WAY IT IS' MANTRA

IN THE WAY OF OUR BRIGHT AND BRAVE NEW WIRED WORLD
THESE IDIOT CRITICS HAVE TRIED VERY HARD TO TURN MY GENERAL POINT - A POINT I MADE USING RADIOHEAD'S 'IN RAINBOWS: PAY WHAT YOU WANT' MARKETING RUSE AS IT IS THE MOST WIDELY KNOWN EXAMPLE - INTO A MOCK SHOCK HORROR "HOW DARE ANYONE QUESTION THE FAMOUSLY INDEPENDENT AND ANTI-CAPITALIST RADIOHEAD, THEY SELL MORE 'PRODUCT' THAN THE CURE SO THEIR STRATEGY OBVIOUSLY 'WORKED' (HUH?!!)... AND ANYWAY, ROBERT SMITH IS WAY TOO OLD TO COMMENT ON CONTEMPORARY CULTURE" MOMENT...

MY POINT IS NEITHER PARTICULARLY NEW NOR ORIGINAL
NOR EXCLUSIVELY ABOUT RADIOHEADS 'IN RAINBOWS'

BUT IT IS I FEEL STILL COMPELLING

ANY FAMOUS ARTIST WITH A HUGE AND DEVOTED FAN BASE (OFTEN ARRIVED AT WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM A WEALTHY AND POWERFUL 'PATRON' OR TWO?) CAN AFFORD TO DO WHAT HE, SHE OR IT WANTS...
INCLUDING GIVING THEIR ART AWAY AS SOME KIND OF 'LOSS LEADER' TO HELP 'BUILD THE BRAND'

ALL WELL AND GOOD (WELL... NOT REALLY! 'LOSS LEADER'? 'BUILD THE BRAND'? AAGH! BUT THIS IS THE LINGUA FRANCA... )

HOWEVER
IF THIS 'ART FOR FREE' IDEA BECOMES THE CULTURAL NORM
THEN HOW DO ARTISTS EARN THEIR LIVING?

HEY
HANG ON
WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT A WEALTHY AND POWERFUL 'PATRON'
LIKE... A BIG RECORD LABEL?
EXCELLENT!
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SIGN UP AND AGREE TO ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS
AND IT WILL MARKET YOU DECISIVELY
AND IF YOU PLAY IT RIGHT ITS EVEN WEALTHIER AND MORE POWERFUL PARENT COMPANY WILL AIR YOUR WORDS AND PICTURES AND VIDEOS AND MUSIC AND ADS ON ITS MANY AND VARIOUS WEB/TV/RADIO CHANNELS

AND CHARGE ADVERTISERS HUGE AMOUNTS TO ADVERTISE TO THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE CONSUMING ALL YOUR FREE ART...

AND YOU THE ARTIST WILL OF COURSE GET A 'FAIR' REWARD FOR YOUR EFFORTS... ?

BAH
SOME 'NEW' PARADIGM!

SO
I STAND BY MY POINT:

AN ARTIST HAS TO VALUE THE ART THEY CREATE
OTHERWISE I DONT BELIEVE THEY CAN BELIEVE IT TO BE ART

I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO PAY AN ARTIST FOR HIS OR HER OR ITS ART
AS IT OBVIOUSLY HELPS ENABLE THAT ARTIST TO KEEP CREATING

AND QUITE HONESTLY
AS ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH THIS POINT
IS UNLIKELY TO BE AN ARTIST
I DONT REALLY CARE TOO MUCH WHAT THEY THINK... !!!
I JUST WROTE ALL THIS BECAUSE I GOT PARTICULARLY FED UP TONIGHT WITH THE SQUEALING HIGH DRAMA OF THE 101 STORIES A DAY AND NONE OF THEM PARTICULARLY TRUE BRIGHT AND BRAVE NEW WIRED WORLD MEDIA THAT WHINES ON AND ON WITHOUT RESPITE OR REFUTATION…


CRETINS!

OR MAYBE ITS JUST MY POST BIG GIG HANGOVER TALKING?!!

ONWARDS...
RSX

PS
I WONDER HOW MANY OF THE PROFESSIONAL APOLOGISTS OUT THERE WRITE THEIR SHIT FOR FREE?

HA!

RS...

I fully agree. Plus, other forms of art provide an income! Jeez, and calling RS too old to comment on contemporary culture? HOW many bands have come out and said they have been heavily influenced by the Cure?!! If you help shape something, you've got to have even the tiniest bit of understanding of it, yes?!!

I think people do misunderstand and misinterpret RS and the Cure, maybe sometimes deliberately... sod 'em. Everyone should stand by their beliefs, etc. Good on you Robert.

It doesn't come for free...

but it's the price we pay for happiness...

((((

CRITICS is crazy. I dont like him. Cure - 4EVER. Radiohead has new wave music for more ?lbum.

02 Cure Concert

probably should be posting somewhere else but got into the RS Music for Free discussion which is pretty interesting.
Art is very hard work indeed -writing,painting,music etc.Often with modern art it is created very quickly and it may or may not generate respect - if it does it is because it is 'soul" touching and so in some way at the very least an interesting concept.
But,the vast majority of "art" takes a lot of hard work and time and emotional stamina.
An architect gets paid,as does a graphic designer and so do song writers and so they should!- i can not see how or why this should ever change -we pay for food for our physical bodies and we pay for art to enliven our spirit and warm our souls -
The 02 gig was fantastic -Thank you to the Cure and i am now looking forward to the other half of 4.13 Dream.No pressure!x

:)

I always love to find a good Robert Rant here on a Saturday morning!!! :P

Thank fuck for that...

Illegal downloading is fucking music...

When there's no money to be made who will care? Why would you market something that won't make any money? So how will you hear/see/read about a band or new artist if there's no-one throwing money at the media machine...

No-one values music anymore...

Singles were at their peak sales during the late seventies/earlies eighties right? Hmm....notice the quality of music from this period? Now look at today...

It's terrifying...the way this is going no new bands will ever hit their stride or amount to anything...it'll just be endless dad rock like U2 and the Reformed 80's act going round in circles...

Would any record label today put up with The Cure's antics for the first 5 years? I really doubt that...

You can hear it on Radio 1...

Those guys are desperate man....I haven't listened to Radio 1 in 5 years really...(which says a lot since I was an avid listener as a teen) but back then (such a long time loool) they wouldn't play anything older than 1 year (bar a few cliched oldies thrown in) now I'm amazed to hear the indie "hits" of the last 4 years thrown in...most everything else has a sample of someone else's music in it or is a cover...

They've run out of music...

And fuck po-faced Radiohead fans...they never did have a fucking sense of humour...

You're a million miles ahead of Radiohead anyway...

Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

_Julie_ wrote:
The "free" concept of taking advantage of someone while you continue to profit has been spiraling out of control for a while now. The entertainment industry is particularly notorious for this and I can't believe what a crazy level it is at now. The sickness is spreading to mainstream jobs as well.
I think one of the most predatory terms today is "internship". I GUESS ROBERT CAN CONSIDER HMSELF AN INTERN NOW! Anyone who wants free labor is putting up ads for every conceivable position at their company, and every SERVICE they should be paying for, looking for interns. I have seen companies go down the roster of titles, and post ads for these people to be "interns" with them and then expect reels and credits and years of experience. I have seen on more than one occasion places asking for accountants, web designers, pod casters, audio engineers, the whole nine yards, under the veil of "internship". It is illegal to have a disproportionate number of "interns" to paid employees! In days past an intern apprenticed under someone and learned about the job as they were getting the grunt work done. Now you are no where near anyone or thing you could ever learn from. Companies almost NEVER hire the interns, they just cycle through the free labor.
The one that took the cake, literally, that I recently saw on craigslist was a request for CRAFT SERVICES to be "interning"! as in providing food for FREE, for the opportunity for "credit", and experience, and networking. It is so out of control.
I especially hate it when a company that has nothing to do with the service they are requesting (a sign they should be paying you),asks for your EXPERTISE as an internship. Like the real estate office that needs to update their web presence so they want a someone to do their web design for free!! They say they want an "intern", better yet a "young intern or college student", (as in stupid and easy prey, or a person who has mommy paying the bills so it won't matter if they get paid)... I've had companies tell me this!...that young people don't have to worry about the bills, and I am too old for the job because I need to pay for a roof over my head! Most of my internships were useless and I could never put them on resumes, like "getting the artist and producer their drug money from the accountant every day... making sure they aren't dead of an overdose..." I can list many examples, but it will just make me crazy.

Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

_Julie_ wrote:
I GUESS ROBERT CAN CONSIDER HMSELF AN INTERN NOW!

Re: MUSIC FOR FREE?

HOWEVER
IF THIS 'ART FOR FREE' IDEA BECOMES THE CULTURAL NORM
THEN HOW DO ARTISTS EARN THEIR LIVING?

Exactly! Especially in this frickin' economy.....I'm starting to once again value the spelndid pleasure and happiness of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich over here. And with a chocolate milk? Ahh forget about it! C'mon Obama, I love ya but I'm ready to be stimulated my good Prez.

HEY
HANG ON

Ok, I'm hangin....I am with you brother...


WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT A WEALTHY AND POWERFUL 'PATRON'
LIKE... A BIG RECORD LABEL?
EXCELLENT!
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SIGN UP AND AGREE TO ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS
AND IT WILL MARKET YOU DECISIVELY
AND IF YOU PLAY IT RIGHT ITS EVEN WEALTHIER AND MORE POWERFUL PARENT COMPANY WILL AIR YOUR WORDS AND PICTURES AND VIDEOS AND MUSIC AND ADS ON ITS MANY AND VARIOUS WEB/TV/RADIO CHANNELS

Dude, you should be getting paid for writing THIS. Music biz 101 goin' on right here, and you're throwin' it out there for free to your fans. A guy who cares, imagine fuckin' THAT!

AND CHARGE ADVERTISERS HUGE AMOUNTS TO ADVERTISE TO THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE CONSUMING ALL YOUR FREE ART...

AND YOU THE ARTIST WILL OF COURSE GET A 'FAIR' REWARD FOR YOUR EFFORTS... ?

BAH
SOME 'NEW' PARADIGM!

SO
I STAND BY MY POINT:

That's why we love you dude.....

AN ARTIST HAS TO VALUE THE ART THEY CREATE
OTHERWISE I DONT BELIEVE THEY CAN BELIEVE IT TO BE ART

You are on a Marlon Brando streak right now, keep goin'...

I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO PAY AN ARTIST FOR HIS OR HER OR ITS ART
AS IT OBVIOUSLY HELPS ENABLE THAT ARTIST TO KEEP CREATING

Exactly! 29 Cure shows and all those tapes, CDs, VHS', and DVD's - I knew you'd stay in it for us! And you even personalized it with a couple of requests one gig. Talk about loyalty recognition....

AND QUITE HONESTLY
AS ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH THIS POINT
IS UNLIKELY TO BE AN ARTIST
I DONT REALLY CARE TOO MUCH WHAT THEY THINK... !!!

Dude, you should TOTALLY manage a band! Or atleast put your CEO resume on jobs.com....

Stay well and thanks for the education RS. I will play a Cure song at my gig tonight in your honor as always. Wish I was making Vegas and Coachella but I don't think it's in the cards. The Palms is really cool, you will enjoy it.

Sean
//the Whyos//
Phila, Pa USA

Re: RS...

cats_n_cheese wrote:
I fully agree. Plus, other forms of art provide an income! Jeez, and calling RS too old to comment on contemporary culture? HOW many bands have come out and said they have been heavily influenced by the Cure?!! If you help shape something, you've got to have even the tiniest bit of understanding of it, yes?!!

I think people do misunderstand and misinterpret RS and the Cure, maybe sometimes deliberately... sod 'em. Everyone should stand by their beliefs, etc. Good on you Robert.

Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

ti8tgowbb wrote:

omg...you hit the nail on the head with this ...it makes me nauseous at the thought of it...it is a persisting sneakily permissive form of slavery

there is another thing that gets under me like bamboo shoots under the fingernails...when i was writing short stories and such and searching The Writers' Market for any place to sell I came across a disproportionate number of publishers who offered underpayment that would result in maybe a one time payment of $10.00 for a story; which seemed generous compared to the majority of publications who offered a copy of the magazine as payment citing the experience and byline as being payment enough. Such crap. I sent in nothing under those terms and gave up writing little things and went for the big, too weird to even sell it book as a way to cut off my nose to spite my own face...BUT, fully express myself artistically MY WAY and I'm still working on it (12 years later). There are more than one way to skin an asshole: when it's done, i'll publish on Kindle

re: MUSIC FOR FREE?

I agree with Robert as well. They work hard to bring their music to fruition so why shouldn't they get paid for that??
If they choose to release some of their work for free though, that is their choice. One musician I am a huge fan of actually released an album for free download to his fans. I think that's bloody cool but every other time I have paid for the albums he produces because I want to support him and his music.
If any artist doesn't value their work, they shouldn't be in that buisness altogether.

PS: somebody is up real late..up to no good, hopefully ;-P

Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

ghani wrote:

That's a really funny (and terrifyingly too true) thought. Robert has been (successfully!) creating and selling his art for such a long time, it's ridiculous to think of him being "demoted" to an intern after all of that...

What makes me sad is... if The Cure doesn't get compensated for all their hard work... will they continue? Generally, if people in other professions stop getting paid correctly, they quit. I hope that the frustrations of the music industry BS don't overcome the passion for creating and sharing music...

Re: Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

Meritaten wrote:

ghani wrote:

That's a really funny (and terrifyingly too true) thought. Robert has been (successfully!) creating and selling his art for such a long time, it's ridiculous to think of him being "demoted" to an intern after all of that...

What makes me sad is... if The Cure doesn't get compensated for all their hard work... will they continue? Generally, if people in other professions stop getting paid correctly, they quit. I hope that the frustrations of the music industry BS don't overcome the passion for creating and sharing music...

I agree. The more I read and hear about record companies' antics, the more I understand why some artists throw up their hands, create their own personal labels and just create and distribute their own CDs themselves. There really needs to be a revolution in the music industry.

IMHO I agree with RS that the lack of appropriate compensation is probably more devastating to emerging artists. I don't think it's so much that bands who have arrived will stop what they are doing, but that bands who are emerging, who might have a lot of talent and potential, will be forced to give up because they simply can't sustain themselves.

Re: MUSIC FOR FREE?

More,
Sour, Yellow, Sounds, Inside My head...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

xXTheCureXx wrote:

Meritaten wrote:

ghani wrote:

That's a really funny (and terrifyingly too true) thought. Robert has been (successfully!) creating and selling his art for such a long time, it's ridiculous to think of him being "demoted" to an intern after all of that...

What makes me sad is... if The Cure doesn't get compensated for all their hard work... will they continue? Generally, if people in other professions stop getting paid correctly, they quit. I hope that the frustrations of the music industry BS don't overcome the passion for creating and sharing music...

I agree. The more I read and hear about record companies' antics, the more I understand why some artists throw up their hands, create their own personal labels and just create and distribute their own CDs themselves. There really needs to be a revolution in the music industry.

IMHO I agree with RS that the lack of appropriate compensation is probably more devastating to emerging artists. I don't think it's so much that bands who have arrived will stop what they are doing, but that bands who are emerging, who might have a lot of talent and potential, will be forced to give up because they simply can't sustain themselves.

In NME, he mentions (on the rock n' roll etc page at the back)how hard it must be for brand new bands, because they have to get into the public eye by doing outrageous things.

It's just stupid. The whole industry is. Trying to change how people look, to fill the gap in the market. You can see why some bands starts their own labels! The Cure are lucky: I'm sorry to say this, but if they were to try going into the industry now, I think they would struggle. The whole idea behind them wouldn't be seen as amazing, in the same way as it is nowadays.

In media, my teacher told us how "We believe we live in a free world, but, in actual fact, we don't" this is totally true. Nothing in the media is how we wish, with people interferring with music, to make it radio-playable, editting pictures, to make the person thinner/infallible. It pisses me off.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

Meritaten wrote:

xXTheCureXx wrote:

Meritaten wrote:

ghani wrote:

That's a really funny (and terrifyingly too true) thought. Robert has been (successfully!) creating and selling his art for such a long time, it's ridiculous to think of him being "demoted" to an intern after all of that...

What makes me sad is... if The Cure doesn't get compensated for all their hard work... will they continue? Generally, if people in other professions stop getting paid correctly, they quit. I hope that the frustrations of the music industry BS don't overcome the passion for creating and sharing music...

I agree. The more I read and hear about record companies' antics, the more I understand why some artists throw up their hands, create their own personal labels and just create and distribute their own CDs themselves. There really needs to be a revolution in the music industry.

IMHO I agree with RS that the lack of appropriate compensation is probably more devastating to emerging artists. I don't think it's so much that bands who have arrived will stop what they are doing, but that bands who are emerging, who might have a lot of talent and potential, will be forced to give up because they simply can't sustain themselves.

In NME, he mentions (on the rock n' roll etc page at the back)how hard it must be for brand new bands, because they have to get into the public eye by doing outrageous things.

It's just stupid. The whole industry is. Trying to change how people look, to fill the gap in the market. You can see why some bands starts their own labels! The Cure are lucky: I'm sorry to say this, but if they were to try going into the industry now, I think they would struggle. The whole idea behind them wouldn't be seen as amazing, in the same way as it is nowadays.

In media, my teacher told us how "We believe we live in a free world, but, in actual fact, we don't" this is totally true. Nothing in the media is how we wish, with people interferring with music, to make it radio-playable, editting pictures, to make the person thinner/infallible. It pisses me off.

Very well said. It pisses me off too. A few weeks ago I was reading about some of the struggles Amanda Palmer was having with her label. They wanted to airbrush/edit out her "fat" stomach (which totally wasn't fat, and WHO CARES if it were, anyway?!) in her video, she refused, and as a result the label essentially kicked her to the curb.

I agree with you that unfortunately, I think The Cure and a lot of other really talented, innovative quality bands would struggle if they were emerging now, because the system is not set up to reward quality, talent or innovation. Nor do executives care for artists who have actual brains in their heads, know who they are and want to control their own art...they want smiling Barbie and Ken dolls they can manipulate.

I think there's always been a bit of that--we've always had the prefabricated media machine bands like the Monkees or the New Kids on the Block or what have you--but now it's so prevalent. You really don't see cool bands out there unless they're a) established and continuing on; b) they're working out of an indie label and they're somehow savvy enough to make it work.

Part of me used to think that I thought that way because I'm no longer a teenager and have turned into an old curmudgeon, but no...I love music just the same and I'm open to it, but it's not always there, and I have to wade through a lot more slush to find it when it does exist.

And the demographics for the fan bases for the older, established bands say a lot too. When I was a teenager, early 1990s, there were perhaps one or two bands from the 70s that we all treated with grudging respect, but our loyalty was for the new guard. Nowadays you see a lot of young kids FLOCKING to the 80s and 90s bands, and why is that? They know where the quality music is. :)

I remember reading about how in the 1920s in Hollywood, Mary Pickford and some of her colleagues started United Artists film studio, and Harold Lloyd did all his own work, because they were tired of the way they were treated by the major film studios. Maybe there needs to be a similar revolution in the music industry. In the meantime it's all very depressing.

Re: Mmmm....

Klomsky Toadsky wrote:
I love when Our Glorious Leader flips his lid, it just makes him more here and real. My imagination can fill in details like voice and flapping his hands about.
I wish i could make that much sense when I flip mine :oI

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

Meritaten wrote:

xXTheCureXx wrote:

Meritaten wrote:

ghani wrote:

That's a really funny (and terrifyingly too true) thought. Robert has been (successfully!) creating and selling his art for such a long time, it's ridiculous to think of him being "demoted" to an intern after all of that...

What makes me sad is... if The Cure doesn't get compensated for all their hard work... will they continue? Generally, if people in other professions stop getting paid correctly, they quit. I hope that the frustrations of the music industry BS don't overcome the passion for creating and sharing music...

I agree. The more I read and hear about record companies' antics, the more I understand why some artists throw up their hands, create their own personal labels and just create and distribute their own CDs themselves. There really needs to be a revolution in the music industry.

IMHO I agree with RS that the lack of appropriate compensation is probably more devastating to emerging artists. I don't think it's so much that bands who have arrived will stop what they are doing, but that bands who are emerging, who might have a lot of talent and potential, will be forced to give up because they simply can't sustain themselves.

In NME, he mentions (on the rock n' roll etc page at the back)how hard it must be for brand new bands, because they have to get into the public eye by doing outrageous things.

It's just stupid. The whole industry is. Trying to change how people look, to fill the gap in the market. You can see why some bands starts their own labels! The Cure are lucky: I'm sorry to say this, but if they were to try going into the industry now, I think they would struggle. The whole idea behind them wouldn't be seen as amazing, in the same way as it is nowadays.

In media, my teacher told us how "We believe we live in a free world, but, in actual fact, we don't" this is totally true. Nothing in the media is how we wish, with people interferring with music, to make it radio-playable, editting pictures, to make the person thinner/infallible. It pisses me off.

Very well said. It pisses me off too. A few weeks ago I was reading about some of the struggles Amanda Palmer was having with her label. They wanted to airbrush/edit out her "fat" stomach (which totally wasn't fat, and WHO CARES if it were, anyway?!) in her video, she refused, and as a result the label essentially kicked her to the curb.

I agree with you that unfortunately, I think The Cure and a lot of other really talented, innovative quality bands would struggle if they were emerging now, because the system is not set up to reward quality, talent or innovation. Nor do executives care for artists who have actual brains in their heads, know who they are and want to control their own art...they want smiling Barbie and Ken dolls they can manipulate.

I think there's always been a bit of that--we've always had the prefabricated media machine bands like the Monkees or the New Kids on the Block or what have you--but now it's so prevalent. You really don't see cool bands out there unless they're a) established and continuing on; b) they're working out of an indie label and they're somehow savvy enough to make it work.

Part of me used to think that I thought that way because I'm no longer a teenager and have turned into an old curmudgeon, but no...I love music just the same and I'm open to it, but it's not always there, and I have to wade through a lot more slush to find it when it does exist.

And the demographics for the fan bases for the older, established bands say a lot too. When I was a teenager, early 1990s, there were perhaps one or two bands from the 70s that we all treated with grudging respect, but our loyalty was for the new guard. Nowadays you see a lot of young kids FLOCKING to the 80s and 90s bands, and why is that? They know where the quality music is. :)

I remember reading about how in the 1920s in Hollywood, Mary Pickford and some of her colleagues started United Artists film studio, and Harold Lloyd did all his own work, because they were tired of the way they were treated by the major film studios. Maybe there needs to be a similar revolution in the music industry. In the meantime it's all very depressing.

Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

Meritaten wrote:

ti8tgowbb wrote:

omg...you hit the nail on the head with this ...it makes me nauseous at the thought of it...it is a persisting sneakily permissive form of slavery

there is another thing that gets under me like bamboo shoots under the fingernails...when i was writing short stories and such and searching The Writers' Market for any place to sell I came across a disproportionate number of publishers who offered underpayment that would result in maybe a one time payment of $10.00 for a story; which seemed generous compared to the majority of publications who offered a copy of the magazine as payment citing the experience and byline as being payment enough. Such crap. I sent in nothing under those terms and gave up writing little things and went for the big, too weird to even sell it book as a way to cut off my nose to spite my own face...BUT, fully express myself artistically MY WAY and I'm still working on it (12 years later). There are more than one way to skin an asshole: when it's done, i'll publish on Kindle

Oh, hell yes. I could write a book just on the ways authors are abused, and I'd start with most of those "pay in copies" publications. There's a time and place for it. If you're a little 'zine printed in someone's attic, and the editors are sacrificing groceries to pay for the print run (which I've actually heard of), maybe you can't afford to pay your writers. Okay. However, if you're a mainstream literary magazine, you have an endowment or you're based out of a University? Suck it up, do the right thing and pay your writers. It amazes me that all these publications will sit there and build their reputations on writers' backs, while giving them nothing.

Of course if they do pay you, you have to worry if they're actually going to honor their contract. A few years ago I almost ended up taking an editor to court because he somehow kept forgetting he owed me a check, and then also conveniently decided to reprint my work in a format for which he did not own the rights.

And of course the establishment has chosen to look down their noses and vilify things that give control back to writers, such as self-publishing. Maybe if the mainstream treated writers better, they wouldn't have to worry about people going to Lulu or Amazon publishing, but that never crosses the snobs' minds...

Curefan

I start like of cure when i have 2 years..and my sister listen the cure and i just can sleep when i listen the sweet song of the beautiful of you voice in pictures of you..and when i have 4 years im my birthday my sister make one video mine when i dance close to me hahahah..
My favorite music of cure..is Siamese Twins...because i feel the same..."Is always like this" and nothing change...
I start to make poems because of you..and the perfect words you use in your compositions...and you are my inspiration..your words..the music you sing...your propositions ...is simple perfect and i love you Robert James Smith...
Ps:I love you playng "The kiss" is one perfect exemple is Trilogy...
Im not have opportunitty of see you live in Brasil...you can come here??Please..
Here in Brasil we listen disintegration all day..is how say the father us hahahhah...
So you can say me when you have some planes to come to Brasil??
And...wath you thinking when you do "Bare","Siamese twins" and "Cold"..
here in Brasil...every knows me how Bare girl because are my favorite music hahah...
And..i liked know wath you thinking..and feeling when you do this music...
And "Doing the unstuck" ahhaha is one fabolous song..and he make me feel happy..and when i'm feel me down i listen this song and start to jump and sing..and scream..
Thank you to do songs so perfects and beautiful...
Your voice help me in all the moments of my life...
To me you is the god of music!
And i love this band...

Re: Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

ti8tgowbb wrote:
When I was tossing and turning night after night wondering what am I going to do with my LIFE'S WORK, I was making myself sick with worry. Yet I kept on writing because I am compelled to. The story has evolved over the years whilst the market has devolved. And there was no way I would self publish through the endless vanity presses that have been exploiting authors since I was a kid.

Until I discovered Kindle. In the strangest way too. Another one of my strange psychic experiences YEARS before Kindle was invented. When I discovered there was such a thing and investigated, first finding out that the the TOP publisher on the planet is actually Amazon and THEN, investigating the terms of Kindle to be promising and exceptionally fair.

So I did a gleeful jig, ELATED that there IS an actual WAY (WAY!) to over step past the shyster agents (now that having an agent is a requirement to submit to anyone), and the fact that I would first have to have an agent who was willing to read experimental literature from an unpublished author, when no one seems interested in that kind of thing...it was liberating, to say the least. I'm elated now that there is an alternative option that is valid. My happy humming about it was music to my soul.

There needs to be such a thing for musicians too. I don't know how iTunes works, but at least there is a fee and there is a duplication limitation set on the download.

I don't really know. I'm all for saving the world. I dont' feel that I am qualified to think of the best way how to go about doing it. I do know that I don't want to give away my hard work and will not do it under any circumstances. If I put it up for sale and it does not sell, after giving it my best effort, so be it. But to bypass that attempt and just put it up for free...no fucking way.

too old

Yes Robert, clearly you and your band are TOO OLD to comment on contemporary culture.

Nevermind that The Cure were just crowned Godlike Geniuses because of their consistently fresh musical approach.

Nevermind the many and various "contemporary" artists citing Robert Smith and The Cure as a MAJOR influence of their contemporary music.

And, nevermind that I, at 21 years of age (doesn't get much more contemporary than that) maintain that The Cure makes my favorite music and conducts their business in a satisfactory manner for fans.

Too old?!!! How old is Mick Jagger? And what do Stones tickets cost now days??? WTF! Free music indeed.

Hello..

Thanks for the point you made here
by doing so you found your solution:
ONWARDS

We all know you are right..

that free music is wrong. There are so many levels of why it shouldn't become the norm that I can't even be bothered to type it all out here and you have already listed most. I think this post and expansion on what you said in the original interview should get your point across to these numb nuts, who let's face it, thought you were just having a go at radiohead as they are to short sighted to see the full implications of free art.

I suppose the only good thing about free art would have meant no madonna or bono types (I will have respect for bono when he lives in a trailer having given all his wealth, including what he has in tax free bank accounts, to the starving millions he claims to care so much about. But that's another story:)

To Robert

It's too hard for me to write in english and to devellop (?) but I'm agree with you Robert, and not because you are Robert ... just because, it's my mind.
Don't worry about those criticals.

And thanks for the showsat the 02 and brixton

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

Meritaten wrote:

ti8tgowbb wrote:
When I was tossing and turning night after night wondering what am I going to do with my LIFE'S WORK, I was making myself sick with worry. Yet I kept on writing because I am compelled to. The story has evolved over the years whilst the market has devolved. And there was no way I would self publish through the endless vanity presses that have been exploiting authors since I was a kid.

Until I discovered Kindle. In the strangest way too. Another one of my strange psychic experiences YEARS before Kindle was invented. When I discovered there was such a thing and investigated, first finding out that the the TOP publisher on the planet is actually Amazon and THEN, investigating the terms of Kindle to be promising and exceptionally fair.

So I did a gleeful jig, ELATED that there IS an actual WAY (WAY!) to over step past the shyster agents (now that having an agent is a requirement to submit to anyone), and the fact that I would first have to have an agent who was willing to read experimental literature from an unpublished author, when no one seems interested in that kind of thing...it was liberating, to say the least. I'm elated now that there is an alternative option that is valid. My happy humming about it was music to my soul.

There needs to be such a thing for musicians too. I don't know how iTunes works, but at least there is a fee and there is a duplication limitation set on the download.

I don't really know. I'm all for saving the world. I dont' feel that I am qualified to think of the best way how to go about doing it. I do know that I don't want to give away my hard work and will not do it under any circumstances. If I put it up for sale and it does not sell, after giving it my best effort, so be it. But to bypass that attempt and just put it up for free...no fucking way.

RE: iTunes; definitely. I think Amazon accepts indie CDs the same way they accept indie books, and there's always CD Baby, but there could be more.

Nothing's helped writers the way the Print-on-Demand presses like Amazon/Kindle and Lulu have; they've really given a lot of control back to the little guy. It does always amuse me to see how the mainstream literary cliques look down on people who decide to do PoD, though. I've seen some horrible PoD books, but I've also seen some horrible ones from major publishers. If you're hoofing it on your own, versus going with Pretentious Professors Press, it's not an automatic indicator of the quality of the work, especially these days.

It's nice to see there are a few good indie publishers out there who are good guys, too. I'd like to hope they're sending a message to the majors: "hey, look, we're selling books, and yet we're not assholes and we're not exploiting our authors! It can be done!" The majors do tend to be clueless on these things, though.

When your work does come out, I hope you will let us all know so we can go buy it! :)

...

if you're really good at something, never do it for free.

Re: ...

iamspooky wrote:
if you're really good at something, never do it for free.

Very well said, Robert...

You sum up you point in just these two sentences:

PS
I WONDER HOW MANY OF THE PROFESSIONAL APOLOGISTS OUT THERE WRITE THEIR SHIT FOR FREE?

HA!


We all know that they don't! Nor would be pleased to do!

Btw, your fans will always pay the price your music value, because we all know that what you do is ART.

If I were Radiohead I would forever wonder how much copies I'd really have sold if I had put a price to my album... Would they really reach number 1? They'll never know!

Heh

Same ol' kickass Robert, setting people in their place. :D

And I can personally agree with this; as want as many people as possible to hear Dem imonde's music, but man...I still have to put gas in my car, ya know?!?!?! I can't just frollick around and act like I want to change the world while not having any cash in my pocket...

And iTunes sucks - they kept the money we got from people that bought our songs.

Re: MUSIC FOR FREE?

CURE:ROBERT wrote:
SO
IT SEEMS A FEW PROFESSIONAL APOLOGISTS (YOU HAVE TO LOVE THEM!) OUT THERE DISAGREE WITH MY "EVERY ARTIST SHOULD VALUE THEIR ART" MUSING
AND THINK ITS OK FOR ART - MUSIC IN PARTICULAR - TO BE MADE AVAILABLE FREE FOR ALL...

NO I AM NOT CONFUSING 'ARTISTIC VALUE' WITH 'COMMERCIAL VALUE'
MERELY QUESTIONING THE DUMB ACCEPTANCE OF THE 'FREE ART IS THE 'NEW' PARADIGM - THATS JUST THE WAY IT IS' MANTRA

IN THE WAY OF OUR BRIGHT AND BRAVE NEW WIRED WORLD
THESE IDIOT CRITICS HAVE TRIED VERY HARD TO TURN MY GENERAL POINT - A POINT I MADE USING RADIOHEAD'S 'IN RAINBOWS: PAY WHAT YOU WANT' MARKETING RUSE AS IT IS THE MOST WIDELY KNOWN EXAMPLE - INTO A MOCK SHOCK HORROR "HOW DARE ANYONE QUESTION THE FAMOUSLY INDEPENDENT AND ANTI-CAPITALIST RADIOHEAD, THEY SELL MORE 'PRODUCT' THAN THE CURE SO THEIR STRATEGY OBVIOUSLY 'WORKED' (HUH?!!)... AND ANYWAY, ROBERT SMITH IS WAY TOO OLD TO COMMENT ON CONTEMPORARY CULTURE" MOMENT...

MY POINT IS NEITHER PARTICULARLY NEW NOR ORIGINAL
NOR EXCLUSIVELY ABOUT RADIOHEADS 'IN RAINBOWS'

BUT IT IS I FEEL STILL COMPELLING

ANY FAMOUS ARTIST WITH A HUGE AND DEVOTED FAN BASE (OFTEN ARRIVED AT WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM A WEALTHY AND POWERFUL 'PATRON' OR TWO?) CAN AFFORD TO DO WHAT HE, SHE OR IT WANTS...
INCLUDING GIVING THEIR ART AWAY AS SOME KIND OF 'LOSS LEADER' TO HELP 'BUILD THE BRAND'

ALL WELL AND GOOD (WELL... NOT REALLY! 'LOSS LEADER'? 'BUILD THE BRAND'? AAGH! BUT THIS IS THE LINGUA FRANCA... )

HOWEVER
IF THIS 'ART FOR FREE' IDEA BECOMES THE CULTURAL NORM
THEN HOW DO ARTISTS EARN THEIR LIVING?

HEY
HANG ON
WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT A WEALTHY AND POWERFUL 'PATRON'
LIKE... A BIG RECORD LABEL?
EXCELLENT!
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SIGN UP AND AGREE TO ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS
AND IT WILL MARKET YOU DECISIVELY
AND IF YOU PLAY IT RIGHT ITS EVEN WEALTHIER AND MORE POWERFUL PARENT COMPANY WILL AIR YOUR WORDS AND PICTURES AND VIDEOS AND MUSIC AND ADS ON ITS MANY AND VARIOUS WEB/TV/RADIO CHANNELS

AND CHARGE ADVERTISERS HUGE AMOUNTS TO ADVERTISE TO THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE CONSUMING ALL YOUR FREE ART...

AND YOU THE ARTIST WILL OF COURSE GET A 'FAIR' REWARD FOR YOUR EFFORTS... ?

BAH
SOME 'NEW' PARADIGM!

SO
I STAND BY MY POINT:

AN ARTIST HAS TO VALUE THE ART THEY CREATE
OTHERWISE I DONT BELIEVE THEY CAN BELIEVE IT TO BE ART

I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO PAY AN ARTIST FOR HIS OR HER OR ITS ART
AS IT OBVIOUSLY HELPS ENABLE THAT ARTIST TO KEEP CREATING

AND QUITE HONESTLY
AS ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH THIS POINT
IS UNLIKELY TO BE AN ARTIST
I DONT REALLY CARE TOO MUCH WHAT THEY THINK... !!!
I JUST WROTE ALL THIS BECAUSE I GOT PARTICULARLY FED UP TONIGHT WITH THE SQUEALING HIGH DRAMA OF THE 101 STORIES A DAY AND NONE OF THEM PARTICULARLY TRUE BRIGHT AND BRAVE NEW WIRED WORLD MEDIA THAT WHINES ON AND ON WITHOUT RESPITE OR REFUTATION…


CRETINS!

OR MAYBE ITS JUST MY POST BIG GIG HANGOVER TALKING?!!

ONWARDS...
RSX

PS
I WONDER HOW MANY OF THE PROFESSIONAL APOLOGISTS OUT THERE WRITE THEIR SHIT FOR FREE?

HA!

RE: MUSIC FOR FREE?

I always thought that real fans, surely, would much rather pay the set price for a genuine physical copy of their favourite artists' album - rather than have just a free download off the internet.

Personally I like to feel like I've got the real thing - with the official packaging, i.e. the cover art, the sleeve notes and the lyrics and anything else the band might have chosen to include.

What's wrong with paying for it? It's my favourite band. It's a fair exchange.
The Cure's albums aren't even that expensive. Think of the years of listening pleasure you get in return!

I've never been ripped off by any of my favourite musicians. I wouldn't want to insult them by downloading their albums for free or thinking I could appropriately price them myself.
Good music takes time, dedication, talent and hard work. It needs to be valued properly.

Anyway, good bands without huge budgets and support from Major labels wouldn't survive if they just gave their music away.

Robert is right. I'm glad he stands by his opinions - he knows what he's talking about.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

ti8tgowbb wrote:
I like Kindle. It is the wave of the future for portable reading. I would not be one to purchase any kind of reference book on Kindle. I like having them on my bookshelves, because I do refer back to them again and again. But for novels, why not? It makes sense. The prices are more than fair. And the reading device is improved already, in it's second incarnation. I feel good about it for the written word. Images...eh. Not so much. But if you are a good enough artist to produce in color, then you are good enough to convert them to attractive b&w versions. The newest Kindle will use 16 shades of grey, whereas the original used only 4. To create an illustration that uses 4 shades to get the point across and 12 more to add depth...hey, there are digital art skills required there.

Creating the manuscript in the proper format for upload to Kindle's website is a ghastly, time consuming task even knowing how. For someone to attempt it without knowledge of HTML is asking for a aneurysm. Luckily, I know HTML. So, I'm on a roll with this. And, after seeing the extensive list of books growing and growing...I'm impressed. And comforted by all that. I had wanted to see my book on a library shelf, but right now I want to see it published at all and get paid for it.

The getting paid for it part is crucial to me. I can easily write it. Print it out. Put it in a binder (I already have a huge binder) and leave it like that. Forever. Until after I'm dead, for my jewel to be "discovered" after I'm dead...if it gets past my family who could give two shits about what I do if it's written. There is no one in my family who who actually read it ANYWAY. So it is left to me to do what I can with it...for me. I'm still in need of a car. :-D

I don't understand why Robert is critized for his opinion!!

After all, he should be free to do what he chooses with the music he creates!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use people.

Meritaten wrote:

ti8tgowbb wrote:
I like Kindle. It is the wave of the future for portable reading. I would not be one to purchase any kind of reference book on Kindle. I like having them on my bookshelves, because I do refer back to them again and again. But for novels, why not? It makes sense. The prices are more than fair. And the reading device is improved already, in it's second incarnation. I feel good about it for the written word. Images...eh. Not so much. But if you are a good enough artist to produce in color, then you are good enough to convert them to attractive b&w versions. The newest Kindle will use 16 shades of grey, whereas the original used only 4. To create an illustration that uses 4 shades to get the point across and 12 more to add depth...hey, there are digital art skills required there.

Creating the manuscript in the proper format for upload to Kindle's website is a ghastly, time consuming task even knowing how. For someone to attempt it without knowledge of HTML is asking for a aneurysm. Luckily, I know HTML. So, I'm on a roll with this. And, after seeing the extensive list of books growing and growing...I'm impressed. And comforted by all that. I had wanted to see my book on a library shelf, but right now I want to see it published at all and get paid for it.

The getting paid for it part is crucial to me. I can easily write it. Print it out. Put it in a binder (I already have a huge binder) and leave it like that. Forever. Until after I'm dead, for my jewel to be "discovered" after I'm dead...if it gets past my family who could give two shits about what I do if it's written. There is no one in my family who who actually read it ANYWAY. So it is left to me to do what I can with it...for me. I'm still in need of a car. :-D

I'll be honest...I'm not a fan of eBooks myself, and I hope they never replace physical books. I do think they have uses, such as preserving public domain classics online for everyone to enjoy. I also think Kindle is excellent and really useful for a lot of people. I've heard that the new version has a screen reader, which opens up a whole new world of books for those who are sightless. That's just wonderful. For myself, in the day to day, I find that reading large amounts of text on the computer really hurts my eyes. I'd much rather have a physical book I can carry with me, lend to someone else, leave at a hostel when I travel, etc.

I'm the same way with music...like others have said here, I really like buying CDs. On a personal note I enjoy looking at the cover art and liner notes; on a practical note I buy so much music that if I were dealing with mp3s I'd quickly run out of space on my computer; I'd worry about the comp crashing and losing all my purchases, etc.

I also agree with what everyone has said: if you truly enjoy and respect the artists, you support them. You buy the CDs. Pirating and downloading albums...that's no different from stealing the physical CD from a store.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use peopl

ti8tgowbb wrote:
I bought one. I have a book I have been wanting to read: The Pillars of The Earth. The font is SOOOOOOOOO teeny tiny in the paperback that I bought reading glasses. And I still cannot read it. The idea of INSTANTLY having the books I want to read and being able to enlarge the fonts to actually see without eyestrain is very exciting me. A girl can only squint so much. And, when I do travel I like bringing a book and it's always a fat one and it takes up lots of space. Also, I needed to see how the illustrations look on the actual device, etc. Thousands of people have them, and that is only in North America. I have oodles of paperbacks to sell or give away to free up space on my bookshelves. My absolute favorites and children's books I would NEVER depart with...but I still want to be able to see what I read. And it's cheaper. Until Kindle I would never in a million years have considered going ebook, but after discovering how people are embracing it ...I find the idea intriguing. And hopefully my bread and butter. Or at the very least, the pickle.

Duchamp

You know, I just have to say that it's people like you that caused Duchamp to bring art back to the masses with L.H.O.O.Q. To be honest, I think it would be best if we paid a regular fee, or even tax, for music and it was distributed among the "artists" (most modern music lacks the depth to be called art, by the way) based on the number of downloads of their music, then they get to stay in the money, they get rewarded based on how god their music is and, best of all, the entire long-term moan-fest about stealing music stops. For now though,I think you should just get over the fact that touring is the new source of income for musicians, people can afford outlandish gig tickets because they haven't spent all their pay on albums already, it all balances out.

Re: Re: ...

JackTheSheepWrangler wrote:

iamspooky wrote:
if you're really good at something, never do it for free.

Does that count for sex as well?

Good to see you!

Whoah, Mr. Robert Smith. Technology is amazing. *starstruck* Anyway, what you said really made me look at myself. 'An artist has to value the art they create'. I have been painting most of my life. I have never sold my artwork. Someone once told me that my artwork was a waste of time. I believed them. Although it did not stop me from painting, it did stop me from valuing what I do. I give my artwork away for free. My life is probably half over, I guess it's time to value myself a little more and do something about this predicament.Keep posting, we love you.Forever a fan,K

Hello RSX

So glad you have made us a visit............ I have one thing to contribute...........


Those CRITICS (as you say are not artists), are all WANNA BE artists. the sit in judgement, they sprout off opinions like they are quoting fact, they TRY to determine the thinking patterns of the masses the AIM to speak for...

Cretins - yes

FUCKWITS with no life of their own - certainly..............

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The "industry" has led the pack of employers who use p

Meritaten wrote:

ti8tgowbb wrote:
I bought one. I have a book I have been wanting to read: The Pillars of The Earth. The font is SOOOOOOOOO teeny tiny in the paperback that I bought reading glasses. And I still cannot read it. The idea of INSTANTLY having the books I want to read and being able to enlarge the fonts to actually see without eyestrain is very exciting me. A girl can only squint so much. And, when I do travel I like bringing a book and it's always a fat one and it takes up lots of space. Also, I needed to see how the illustrations look on the actual device, etc. Thousands of people have them, and that is only in North America. I have oodles of paperbacks to sell or give away to free up space on my bookshelves. My absolute favorites and children's books I would NEVER depart with...but I still want to be able to see what I read. And it's cheaper. Until Kindle I would never in a million years have considered going ebook, but after discovering how people are embracing it ...I find the idea intriguing. And hopefully my bread and butter. Or at the very least, the pickle.

Those are all good points. I'm not sold on it, but I can definitely understand how it has advantages, especially if one has trouble reading small text in print.

I use the library pretty extensively, which is the cheapest. :) I still do buy books: if I read them and love them so much I want my own copy; if I can't find it at the library; if it's a friend or author I want to support, but I'm a huge library fan.

For me, the physical books are an advantage when I travel...one because I can leave them behind (a lot of the hostels I've visited have had bookshelves where guests could leave their old books and take new ones) and two because for me they are less of a hassle. If I had a Kindle or a similar device I'd be worried about losing it, about it getting stolen, etc. Whereas if I forget a paperback at the airport, I'm usually frustrated because I'm not going to find out how the book ends but it's not a devastating financial loss.

I hope there's a place in the world for eBooks AND print books alike, so that all readers (and authors!) will be able to have the format which suits them best.

Irony

I love the way this has become a thread about how great libraries are, considering they promote not paying authors so you can read their work.

Re: Irony

ihateirony wrote:
I love the way this has become a thread about how great libraries are, considering they promote not paying authors so you can read their work.

Well, I'm no artist

but I certainly agree with these two points:

"I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO PAY AN ARTIST FOR HIS OR HER OR ITS ART
AS IT OBVIOUSLY HELPS ENABLE THAT ARTIST TO KEEP CREATING"

Yeah!

&

"I WONDER HOW MANY OF THE PROFESSIONAL APOLOGISTS OUT THERE WRITE THEIR SHIT FOR FREE?"

Yeah!

Re: Ah...

Klomsky Toadsky wrote:
But if it's shit they really should :oI

Re: Re: Ah...

glimmmy wrote:

Klomsky Toadsky wrote:
But if it's shit they really should :oI

Actually, some of the shit I read online.. I feel I should be paid to read.

:)

Torrents

I wonder how he feels about fans listening to torrents of live performances.

I would never in a millions years swipe official releases, but I do listen to every torrent I can find.

Long ago, we read that these were ok with him, but..

Maybe it's wrong:(

Well I don't think the "free art" deal make Radiohead ridiculous.

Sure, it'd be nice to have that sort of process and it work, and I admire Radiohead for going against the grain on things like this. BUT! I ALSO think it's a model of business that is unrealistic and devalues the worth of the art.

Free music to let us choose who we want to support.

Dear Robert,

Thank you for your post, I can't believe it !

I want to pay the artist not the major's company so time is up for the CD. Finding another way to let artists earn their lives means that we can CHOOSE those we want to support in a subscription. It will be like art "Mécénat"

If I love a monument I will pay to keep it standing without taking any piece of.

If I want too see another one growing, I will pay too.

CHOOSE is the Key word: Make the artists be equal in the listening by the free listening, and only talent will survive. (So you have no reason to be afraid !!!!)

I'm fed up with the record's industry and dictat. Music on line and free is actually the best and the lonely way for a good cleaning. To stop the commercials things, the shits on radio we are obliged to listen to...everywhere... making people like the same things, the same "hit", the same shit !

Sorry for my so bad english writing.(I'm so impressed by the idea you will read) I hope 2009 will be a very important year for The Cure with 2 anniversarys. I wish the Dark album in April, I wish a concert in France in summer, I dream to continue this talk face to face.

I love The Cure....